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	Comments on: Why the Founding Fathers Wouldn’t Have Been Anti-Vaxxers	</title>
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	<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/</link>
	<description>How Science and Reason Lead Humanity  Toward Truth, Justice, and Freedom</description>
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		<title>
		By: Skeptic &#187; eSkeptic &#187; February 18, 2015		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-684</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skeptic &#187; eSkeptic &#187; February 18, 2015]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-684</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;]  CONTINUE READING  [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]  CONTINUE READING  [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-52</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-52</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Would the founding fathers have been anti-anti-vaxers?&quot;  Several were - beyond doubt.  Dr. Thomas Young (prime instigator of the Boston Tea Party and a founder of the Boston Committee of Correspondence), in a spectacular public act of civil disobedience, vaccinated Ethan Allen for smallpox as a protest against anti-vaccination laws of the time.  John Adams had himself privately vaccinated by Dr. Joseph Warren (hero of Bunker Hill).

See &quot;Natures God, the Heretical Origins of the American Republic&quot;  by Matthew Stewart.  Michael, I am a huge fan of yours, but was disappointed by severe omissions in your latest book.  Please read Stewart&#039;s book and Jonathan Israel&#039;s trilogy on the Enlightenment - you will be better armed as you continue the Revolution.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Would the founding fathers have been anti-anti-vaxers?&#8221;  Several were &#8211; beyond doubt.  Dr. Thomas Young (prime instigator of the Boston Tea Party and a founder of the Boston Committee of Correspondence), in a spectacular public act of civil disobedience, vaccinated Ethan Allen for smallpox as a protest against anti-vaccination laws of the time.  John Adams had himself privately vaccinated by Dr. Joseph Warren (hero of Bunker Hill).</p>
<p>See &#8220;Natures God, the Heretical Origins of the American Republic&#8221;  by Matthew Stewart.  Michael, I am a huge fan of yours, but was disappointed by severe omissions in your latest book.  Please read Stewart&#8217;s book and Jonathan Israel&#8217;s trilogy on the Enlightenment &#8211; you will be better armed as you continue the Revolution.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Max		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-32</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-32</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-28&quot;&gt;asydhouse&lt;/a&gt;.

Who&#039;s conflating, I or Shermer? Shermer said, &quot;Consider the principles underlying the Declaration of Independence. We usually think of this great document as a statement of political philosophy, but it was, in fact, a type of scientific argument.&quot;
Shermer considers it a scientific argument. I don&#039;t see physicists saying, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant.&quot;

Shermer continued, &quot;After the Enlightenment it was necessary to provide reasons for your beliefs and values, and those reasons had better be grounded in rational arguments and empirical evidence or else they could be ignored or rejected.&quot;
So where&#039;s the rational argument and empirical evidence that all men are created equal? If anything, I can show evidence that all men are not created equal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-28">asydhouse</a>.</p>
<p>Who&#8217;s conflating, I or Shermer? Shermer said, &#8220;Consider the principles underlying the Declaration of Independence. We usually think of this great document as a statement of political philosophy, but it was, in fact, a type of scientific argument.&#8221;<br />
Shermer considers it a scientific argument. I don&#8217;t see physicists saying, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant.&#8221;</p>
<p>Shermer continued, &#8220;After the Enlightenment it was necessary to provide reasons for your beliefs and values, and those reasons had better be grounded in rational arguments and empirical evidence or else they could be ignored or rejected.&#8221;<br />
So where&#8217;s the rational argument and empirical evidence that all men are created equal? If anything, I can show evidence that all men are not created equal.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim Watson		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-30</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Watson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-30</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And lest we forget, as the president might say, the anti-vaccine ideologues are found in the American Left, led by its foremost propagandist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Evolution is proven fact based on many decades of evidence in fossils, etc., but is attacked on religious grounds by fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, and others.  The climate always changes over time; that fact, too, is proven by eons of historical evidence. What is not &quot;fact&quot; is what the climate will change to in 50 or 100 years, and what effect such a change may have on human existence. This last statement is &quot;self-evident&quot;.  Predicting the long-term climate is akin to predicting next month&#039;s high temperature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And lest we forget, as the president might say, the anti-vaccine ideologues are found in the American Left, led by its foremost propagandist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Evolution is proven fact based on many decades of evidence in fossils, etc., but is attacked on religious grounds by fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, and others.  The climate always changes over time; that fact, too, is proven by eons of historical evidence. What is not &#8220;fact&#8221; is what the climate will change to in 50 or 100 years, and what effect such a change may have on human existence. This last statement is &#8220;self-evident&#8221;.  Predicting the long-term climate is akin to predicting next month&#8217;s high temperature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: asydhouse		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-28</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[asydhouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-28</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You are conflating &quot;evidence&quot; with &quot;reason&quot;, which is looking like a straw man. It was explained quite cogently and concisely in this brief essay: since we have to start somewhere, we have to establish a common ground from which to build our reasoning. &quot;Self-evident&quot; truths are things that we can agree with through using reason, such as the example given of a triangle having 180º.

Then, starting from that ground, we can construct reasoned arguments. But anything beyond that ground has to gather evidence to support it. The evidence may come after the argument is begun. The couching of the argument presents necessities for evidence. Until the evidence is in, any further construction is unsupported, and therefore not established.

Your apparent dismissal of the necessity of establishing the common ground from which to begin the construction is literally undermining the whole concept of rational discourse.

I don&#039;t know you, so I don&#039;t know whether you are aiming to do that with this faux reasonable confusion of the two distinct concepts of &quot;rational&quot; and &quot;evidence&quot;, but if it is simply sloppy /dashing thought and expression perhaps you should pause before blurting such apparently disingenuous subterfuge in future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are conflating &#8220;evidence&#8221; with &#8220;reason&#8221;, which is looking like a straw man. It was explained quite cogently and concisely in this brief essay: since we have to start somewhere, we have to establish a common ground from which to build our reasoning. &#8220;Self-evident&#8221; truths are things that we can agree with through using reason, such as the example given of a triangle having 180º.</p>
<p>Then, starting from that ground, we can construct reasoned arguments. But anything beyond that ground has to gather evidence to support it. The evidence may come after the argument is begun. The couching of the argument presents necessities for evidence. Until the evidence is in, any further construction is unsupported, and therefore not established.</p>
<p>Your apparent dismissal of the necessity of establishing the common ground from which to begin the construction is literally undermining the whole concept of rational discourse.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know you, so I don&#8217;t know whether you are aiming to do that with this faux reasonable confusion of the two distinct concepts of &#8220;rational&#8221; and &#8220;evidence&#8221;, but if it is simply sloppy /dashing thought and expression perhaps you should pause before blurting such apparently disingenuous subterfuge in future.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Max		</title>
		<link>https://moralarc.org/why-the-founding-fathers-would-not-have-been-anti-vaxxers/#comment-27</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralarc.org/?p=1305#comment-27</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In a previous comment about human rights, I asked, &quot;Are rights sacred?&quot;
So it&#039;s funny how simply substituting &quot;self-evident&quot; for &quot;sacred&quot; turns a religious assertion into a rational one. No actual evidence needed, because it&#039;s self-evident.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a previous comment about human rights, I asked, &#8220;Are rights sacred?&#8221;<br />
So it&#8217;s funny how simply substituting &#8220;self-evident&#8221; for &#8220;sacred&#8221; turns a religious assertion into a rational one. No actual evidence needed, because it&#8217;s self-evident.</p>
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